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Hello and welcome to this episode of our special series in association with Royal London. I'm Kimberly Dondo and today I'm joined by Shelley and Stephan from Royal London, and I will let them introduce themselves because they can do a better job than I can. So, Shelley, if you want to start.

Of course, thanks very much, Kimberly. So yeah, I'm currently senior intermediary technical manager on the protection side for Royal London, but I've worked in financial services for over 25 years now, starting my career in the mortgage world and then moved to protection in 2008.
I am very much involved in developing adviser facing content. A big part of my role is presenting at face-to-face events across the UK. But I'm also involved in writing articles and commenting for the press, so hopefully I have a real in-depth knowledge of the protection market. Stephan, do you want to introduce yourself to our listeners too?

Yep, firstly thanks for having me, Kimberly. My name's Stephan Nandadasa and I'm one of the senior protection account managers at Royal London. I've been doing this job now for nearly 10 years, So what it entails is dealing with financial advisers on the front line, seeing advisers and what their pain points are, as well as helping them develop their conversations around protection to make it resonate better with their clients and increasing engagement. Over that time, I've seen how powerful protection can be, not just on paper, so I'm really passionate about it. And very excited to be part of today's conversation. So, thanks again for having me.

Ok, great. So, kind of touching on what you just mentioned, Stephan, today we're going to be discussing about how you can turn real life claims into powerful client engagement tools. So, I just want to start off by asking why do you think real life claims stories resonate so strongly?

I think stories connect and we have a tendency to talk about statistics a lot in in our industry. And of course, that is important because you need to have the facts on paper, but they don't move people in the same way. When you hear about someone like you, same life stage, same responsibility, same challenges, who's had to deal with the unexpected it just lands differently. It brings what we talk about protection to life.
And in essence, that is the ultimate return on investment for clients when it comes to protection. So, something.
To articulate that in a compelling way, but also a real-life story just resonates differently.

And Shelley, I don't know if you had anything to add to that.

I think exactly what Stephan has been saying really that I think when
customers can appreciate what a protection plan meant for a family that were going through, a terrible time when they can appreciate how it helps them both financially and emotionally. I think it's really important.

And what's the best way for advisers to introduce a claim story without it feeling too heavy?

Yeah, I'll. I'll answer that for you, Kimberly. I think I think it's all really about being conversational. Obviously, we’re not trying to scare anyone or to disturb them. We just want to show them what protection does for real life customers.
And I think saying something similar like a client in a similar situation actually went through this and thank goodness that they had cover. I think it's really all about showing the human side of protection.

Right. And if advisers don't yet have a big bank of claim stories from their own business, what could they do instead?

Look, great question and something that we get a lot and in a way it's a positive situation to be in because you don't really want to want your clients or friends or family to be exposed to something that could result in the claim event. But unfortunately, it's more inevitable than not. So, for those that don't have a story that is absolutely fine, really common. But that's where providers like Royal London can really assist so. We've got a bank of real-life claim stories, videos, audio clips and also in writing. Already client friendly for advisers to use. The thing I would emphasise is utilise your Royal London account managers or your account managers in general to help hone how you engage these stories in your conversation and actually believe in it yourself because these are the things that are happening to people all over the country every day. So, if you can articulate that in a compelling way and make the person, the client in front of you, feel like that is not something that is too far away from them, but the good news is they're in front of you too. Address that financially. That could be a make or break for a family's financial situation.

Yeah. And have you seen stories change a client's decision or perception about protection?

Absolutely. You know, I think we've all seen clients go from, I'll be fine to, ok, I understand what you're talking about now. Maybe just from a hearing, some of the stories and sharing some experiences that really hit close to home. I think that stories make it real, as we've said. And one example comes to mind of an adviser who was speaking with a young couple in their early 30s. They were first time buyers excited about getting their first home. And obviously, as you'd expect, very focused on the mortgage and initially only interested in life cover because that was an almost like a tick box exercise. That's what they thought they ought to have. But when the adviser introduced a real-life claim story about a lady also in their 30s who was signed off work long term after being diagnosed with MS. And whose income protection policy meant she didn't lose her home. It really shifted the whole tone of the meeting. The couple had never really considered income protection. But hearing about someone their age with a similar lifestyle facing something totally unexpected, made them really stop and think. And they did actually say to each other that actually could be us. So, they ended up taking out not just life cover, but income protection too.
Because the story made that risk feel real, and it wasn't just theory anymore, it was a life example that, as they said, that could have been us. So again, I think I'm just reiterating really what Stephan said, that stories make it so real, and they make protection personal, which is essentially the ideal, isn't it for us. It takes away from the potential clinical nature of insurance. It takes away looking at data and statistics to something that people genuinely do resonate with and therefore see the value of.

Yeah, I think that is so true, because if you just presented with stats of, you know, this is the amount of people in your age group that might go through this, you just that's numbers on a page. But I think even for me working in this role and I've heard so many different stories and anecdotes of how income protection, critical illness cover has helped people in certain situations. I've been far more aware and alert towards it, so I know how important and could be. Because you know, I could just be driving down the street and then anything can happen and then and then what's my plan? What's the backup plan? But having something like that, I think, having a story like that laid out to you makes you more empathetic, makes it more real, and I think that's probably storytelling has always been around for years for a reason, I guess.

So finally, how are Royal London supporting advisers with this?

So at Royal London we have always tried to make it easy for advisers to use stories, as both Stephan and I have just said, you know, advisers may well have their own stories and that's fabulous. But we've created a full suite of claim case studies.

They're compliant, they're impactful and they're very easy to share with clients. So, me personally, I think a starting point may be we've said about not using wholly data and statistics, but I think they do have their place, and I think if first of all we can alert a customer to the risk, chance and probability they are going to face in their working life. So that might involve giving some percentage chances to them, but then also to introduce some life stories. But I think as far as Royal London are concerned, it's not just about the story, it's about how we handle the claim itself, and every Royal London claim is handled by a dedicated claims assessor. You know, we want that one person to be dealing with that claim. We don't want a customer to have to go over things time and time again. So, clients have one point of contact from start to finish and that relationship, that continuity, you know, it really does make a difference during what is obviously a very emotional time. Stephan, have you got anything else to add to that?

Yeah, I think all excellent points and positive feedback. We get around all those from advisers constantly, but also, it's our approach to claims. I think that that takes, it plays a big part in all this because the people on one side, but the philosophy is the other. So, we really do take a dynamic approach to claims and underwriting overall but claims certainly. So, if medical treatments have changed or a condition is treated differently today than it was maybe five years ago, we adapt because modern medicine adapts and clients needs move fast, so our claims philosophy choose to act and evolve with all that. With regards to how this links into stories, you mentioned Kimberly about anecdotes you've heard, and you've given all the time. And before we even get to how providers can support advisers in in making this more compelling, I would urge advisers to ask their clients about what exposure they've had either friends, family, whatever have they been exposed to. Someone who is needed to make a claim or been impacted by something like that and delve into what impact that's had on the person and their family and finances because that is a great organic way to bring a real-life situation from a leaflet to something that a client is actually emotionally connected with. So that is a really easy win when it comes to talking about claims and organic way without trying to push anything on that. But with regards to how else we support advisers, what it encompasses, everything that Shelley and I have talked about today is Royal London's Helping Hand service. So that provides any of our clients whether it's they have live cover only or the full suite of protection with access to a dedicated nurse from Red Arc, who we work with, and that is during the claims process as well as out with a claim but especially during the claims course at the process, offering emotional and practical support. Tailored to their specific situation, so this could include guidance over treatment, ranging therapies like counselling or physiotherapy, and it also offers support for both the client and their family.

Because again, with a claim, it's not just one person that's impacted by it. So, all this should help them feel more looked after by not just the payout but getting them and their family to a normality as soon as possible. So really, it's all about trust, transparency. And really, making sure more people get the help they need when they need it most.

And I think it's also shifting that perception that sometimes people have about doing claims they there's always been negative press I guess out there in the past. But shifting that narrative and saying like this is something that you need and also you will get access to.

But thank you both so much for speaking with me today. Stephan and Shelley and sharing your wealth of knowledge. And I look forward to speaking to you again.

Thanks for having us, Kimberly. Love this lovely speak to you.

Thank you.

Hello and welcome back to our second episode of this special series in association with Royal London. I am once again joined by Shelly and Stephan, but for those who may not have listened to the first episode, please go back and listen to it. But Shelly, could you give us a bit of an intro into yourself?

Absolutely. So, I'm Shelley Read and I am senior protection technical manager here at Royal London.

And I'm Stephan Nandadasa. I'm one of the senior protection account managers at Royal London.

Fantastic. Thank you, guys, for joining me again today. So, our overall theme for today's episode is helping advisers get fast underwriting outcomes.
Underwriting can sometimes seem like quite a drawn-out process, but I know that it doesn't have to be. So firstly, what are the most common reasons that you see policies taking longer than might be expected during underwriting?

I think that most delays, Kimberly, come from missing information or us needing further medical evidence, so it might be an incomplete medical history, or maybe some vague answers on the application, or indeed us having to chase a GP for report. So, I think one of the things that I would really stress, and we always have the ability to have a free text box, is for advisers to really put as much information as possible, even if they think that it might not be relevant.
That extra information just might take away the need for us to have any further information. Maybe such as a medical or GP report. So all I would say is it's so critical that we get as much information and obviously it goes without saying that at that information needs to be absolutely, 100% correct.

But sometimes it is just a case of needing extra clarification.
Which maybe could have been avoided with more detail up front, but we're very proud at Royal London that we do our best to try and liaise with both yourself as the adviser and the client to try and answer any questions to speed up the process.

And what do underwriters wish advisers understood better about the process?

So, I will take this one, Kimberly, I had, well, we are in a in a pretty privileged position where we get direct access to our underwriters. So, I'm in constant dialogue with them. So are my advisers and their clients and here are a couple of bits of feedback I think would mean that everyone wins. So firstly, underwriting decisions are based on risk and context. So, not everyone, even though they have the same medical disclosure, will be dealt with the same or treated the same. And that's something that we've got to take into consideration as far as underwriters go, but also medical risk and insurance risk are different, right? They're not always the same thing. So, someone might be medically well managed, but there can still be an insurance risk based on data outcomes or long-term impacts. So, I think, having that as a background narrative is really important to realising that underwriters aren't looking to decline cover. If anything, it's the complete opposite they're looking to make an informed and fair call. With the view of essentially giving the clients the best terms possible, if at all possible. So if advisers provide us with context as much information as possible, like how a condition is managed, the time off work the clients have to take, when would their last symptoms any medication they're on and any other relevant lifestyle information that will really place our underwriters in a great position to look at this client as quickly as possible.

It also helps avoiding unnecessary evidence requests and speeds up the process, because one thing we're really passionate about at Royal London is we want to get information directly from the client if at all possible, when at all possible. Our last case resort is going to 3rd party medical providers because that could take time but also adds more pressure on those providers. But it's really important. It's not about ticking boxes. It really is about having an open dialogue with us. And the client and manage expectations right at this time because at the end of the day, that is probably the most pivotal part and the client needs to understand that underwriting is absolutely imperative to a claim potentially getting paid out in the future.

And where do protection applications tend to fall?
How can this be avoided and to make it more tricky to add more questions. Are there examples both when underwriting has gone smoothly and when it's been delayed?
Shelley, I'm throwing a lot at you, I'm sorry.

Yeah, that's OK. I think that I would say that really health and lifestyle questions are where most issues tend to crop up really where you were asking if applications tend to fall down. I think clients don't always know immediately answers to questions such as what medication and what's the name of the medication, what year it was that they had some surgery, what milligram of medication?

There's all sorts of things like that, but they're obviously super super important to an underwriter and that can create delays while underwriters investigate. So, it goes back to my original point of an adviser getting as much information as possible and all of it to be 100% correct. I mean, one tip I would say is that when you use a provider and obviously, I can only speak for Royal London. That has a part of their process to be able to digitally send those really important questions to the client to answer at their own time so they can answer it on their smartphone or iPad etcetera. You know when they're at home in the evening or over the weekend where they can actually go and remind themselves when it was that they had surgery, what was the name of the condition, what milligram of medication they're taking. All those really important things and giving them time to not guess at those answers and get them 100% accurate is really, really important. And I think on the flip side, when advisers do take time to guide clients through those questions and make sure that they get 100% accurate answers and maybe even using our pre sales underwriting tool, we find the process runs far more smoothly. So, I think if you have any concern about an area of a client's health, family history, job or lifestyle, then it can be really important to counsel their expectations on what we're looking at as a premium. So, the pre-sales underwriting tool is a great addition to the application process and it can mean that advisers can counsel their clients’ expectations. And of course, we always are very proud that it's possible to speak to an underwriter at Royal London, so if you don't want to go through the pre sales underwriting tool I would recommend it, but if not you can absolutely speak to an adviser and I think one adviser I particularly remember working with flagged a really tricky case early on and we gave a decision in principle even before the application was submitted so it saved time for him.
Avoided frustration and it gave the client information and more importantly, confidence from day one.

And what role does the adviser play in keeping the underwriting process efficient? And if there was one tip you could give to avoid unnecessary delays, what would it be?

Well, not to place too much pressure on the adviser, but their role is absolutely massive. They've got a lot of places to spend overall, but yeah, with regards to underwriting their role is an asset. because what advisers are essentially doing is acting as the translator between the client and the underwriter. So, the clearer the information, the fewer the delays. Now what helps from a Royal London perspective is there's less risk of being lost in translation because a client can directly contact their underwriter at Royal London and talk through their particular situation, which saves the adviser a lot of pressure as well. But yes, they h play a big part.

And it's all about managing expectations at point of initial engagement. Educating clients as to what the underwriting process looks like, why it exists, that it's not a bad thing, but actually a really good thing that providers complete such due diligence at the front end of this process. Because it means there's a higher likelihood of a claim being paid at the end, so it is important. Now as far as a top tip there are many things you can do, but I would actually say utilising the pre underwriting support whether it be the presale underwriting tool that Shelley's mentioned, which is essentially, you know, having an underwriter with you even when you're out of working hours. But also, you know, the human approach that you get by contacting us directly to talk, to talk through a case. And our underwriters are more than happy to actually speak to advisers on the front line. And really understand the situation medically or any anything else with their client to give us a better chance of offering them terms. So, 5 minutes with an underwriter on the phone can save 5 days down the line and sometimes even turn a decline into an acceptance. So, it's really important to have that open dialogue initially.

And from Royal London's perspective, are there any standout aspects of underwriting, of your underwriting approach that you think advisers often overlook or under appreciate?

Yes, I and it's probably under appreciation through lack of knowing how it works potentially. But the first thing is our pragmatic people first approach. I cannot emphasise what a difference that makes on a daily basis with cases. So, the fact that our underwriters look at the individual, not the illness or the condition. They'll often pick up the phone directly to the client or the adviser and ask questions and work with the relevant stakeholders, so the client and the adviser get the right outcome as opposed to emailing certain requirements and you know waiting on answers. We really want to get to the right answer as quick as possible and more often than not it's just simply picking up the phone and speaking to the to the adviser or the client, which we do. But Shelly, you have any other thoughts?

Yes, I couldn't agree more with what you've been saying, Stephan. I think the people first approach is so, so important, but we've got to, we've got to take a look at technology, and I think our online application has real sophisticated dynamic underwriting built in and that means real time decisions. So, I know it can be frustrating for an adviser to maybe put some information in and then it comes back with another question and another. But please bear in mind that that's trying to give you terms as quickly as sort of humanly possible. So even when clients disclose something. Our real time decision underwriting engine is constantly learning from feedback to get better and also as I mentioned earlier, we've got one of the strongest presales underwriting tools out there. So, remember it's free to use. It gives a really fast response. I think it's important to note that particularly if you've got a complex client who's got maybe some various areas that you think might affect underwriting. So, for example, if you've got someone with a with a high BMI or another medical condition, maybe they have some complex family history, they might have a dangerous job and also have a hazardous hobby. You're able to include all of those areas of potential risk in pre-sales underwriting tool to give an answer.

So as I said, remember it's free to use, it responds really quickly. It's almost like, as Stephan alluded to, having we sometimes say it's like having an underwriter in your pocket 24/7. But for those challenging cases, you know please bear it in mind because it can be a real game changer.

Yeah. No, I think technology, I was going to mention earlier is probably one of the things that will make that process not as lengthy because you can go back and forth much quicker. And also, there's so many portals that even accessing, I think you mentioned remembering where you had when you had a surgery or something like that, if you're able to access all that information off your NHS patient portal, it makes the whole process so much quicker. Stephan?

Yeah. I just wanted to add as well and not just from the Royal London perspective, but something that advises can use to reassure clients out there during the underwriting process is the free cover facility that some or most providers certainly offer. So, we offer across our whole product suite from the moment the adviser submits the case to us during underwriting for up to a maximum of 90 days.
Where we will honour a free cover claim or a claim event that happens in that time so things can take time. But to reassure your clients.

Submit the case with us and they will be looked after the claim event occurs in that time.

That's great.

Well, thank you both for speaking with me again for this episode and illuminating the world of underwriting a little bit more.

And we hope to have you in the next episode.

That's great. Thanks so much, Kimberly.

Thanks, Kimberly.

Hello and welcome to another episode in our special series with Royal London. In today's episode, I'm joined by Julie Douglas, senior claims assessor at Royal London. Thank you for joining me today, Julie.

Hi there, hello. Thank you for having me.

So, Julie, could you give us a bit of background into yourself and what a senior claims assessor does?

Ok, well, it's not particularly exciting, but basically, I do deal with all types of claims that come into the team. So that's life claims, critical illness, terminal illness, also income protection, really the whole sort of gamut of all the claims that we see. I was trying to work out how long I've been doing the job for and it's really quite a long time, possibly about 30 years. Which is quite a quite scary when you hear it like that. But it's a really rewarding job when we can pay claims and when we can pay them quickly.
It can be a little bit frustrating at times, but I'm sure that stuff that will sort of cover off when we get into the nitty gritty of it all. But yes, it's really interesting and it's the type of job where you do feel as if you're actually making a bit of a difference, and it can be hard going at times. You know you're dealing with people at the worst point in their lives, but also when you can tell them that we're going to pay their claim it just, it does. It's a really, really good feeling. So, all good from that point of view.

Yeah. And I would say 30 years is an amazing amount of time. It just means that you're kind of an expert surely in this.

Yes, always landing. There's always stuff that comes in that none of us, the longer service people have never come across before, so it's the type of job where you're always learning. There's always new things that you come across that you've never seen before. So, it really is maybe not every day's a school day, but certainly every week is in some respect.

So with all that, we are going to be talking about what slows claims down and what can be done to reduce the risk of delayed claims. And clearly with your 30 years of experience and also coming across new things every single week, you are best placed to answer these questions, so why do you claim delays matter so much?

And what kind of impact can they have on clients, families and advisers?

It's a huge, huge impact. Delays are really probably the worst part about the job. We're dealing with people who've had a life changing diagnosis or worse. They could be dealing with the death of a family member, a partner. They might not be able to work. There may be struggling to look after their children or if they have other care and responsibilities. They're worried about bills; they've maybe got a reduced income. So, anything. And also, they will be undergoing treatment as well in the vast majority of cases.
And adding the claim into the mix, that's the point where we want everything to run smoothly. We want to be able to gather the evidence that we need. We don't want there to be any delays because ultimately, we want to get a decision made and a claim paid as quickly as possible. Because we do, whilst we're maybe not going through what they're going through ourselves, we all as a team understand and really get how this type of thing that the customers going through. It's just so significant, it's a huge, huge thing in their life.

Yeah. And can you give a brief idea of how a typical claim journey looks?

Yep. So, we do tend to use the telephone quite a lot. That really just form the basis of most of our claims assessing certainly at the start of the process. So, we would normally be contacted, usually there can be contact by e-mail, it can be through the online submission form that I think is maybe on the website somewhere. The vast majority of people though do tend to pick up the phone and come through and say I want to make a claim. So, we would normally take some basic information. We will then arrange a call back, usually within 24 to 48 hours. At that point we also ask the customer to send us in what we call CAC. That's customer supply dividends, if they have anything from the hospital that tells them that maybe covers off their diagnosis, what the treatment's going to be, anything that would really help us in the claim space, we ask them to send that into us there and then. The idea being that if we have that before we make the call to the customer, we have had the opportunity to go through it.
We are a little bit more prepared. We know what we're dealing with, and it means we can tailor our questions accordingly and prevent duplication. We're not asking the same questions over and over again. So, we would make the call to the customer, we sort of chat through. We try and get a bit of a timeline what they've been diagnosed with, what their treatment's going to be, how long they've been off work for and when did they first see their doctors, what are their doctor’s details. All type of stuff that you would normally expect to get at the first point of contact.
We also chat about paperwork that we need them to complete, so that would be a medical consent form that allows us to go to the doctors for information. There may also be some other bits and pieces of paperwork that we that we need them to complete.
So we then if it's income protection, we would also cover off the financial side of things. So, make them aware of what we're looking for them to send in. So that could be things like pay slips, a P60, a tax return. Again, it depends on what their employment status is. What we tend to do, though, is once we've had the.
Normally follow it up with a meal and just remind them about what we've sort of touched on in the call and just say and by the way, can you also send us XYZ so that they have that you know that they've got there at that point in time, they know what we're looking for. They've got our contact details as well. So, it means that the going forwards, the customer can get in touch directly with my cell for whoever their named assessor is.
There may be occasions during that sort of intimation call where we find out that.
What they're trying to make a claim for isn't actually covered on their policy, so that's a conversation. It can be a little bit tricky because you're having to say to someone. I'm so sorry. I know you've been diagnosed with whatever, but regrettably it's not something that your policy covers. So that can be a little bit upsetting for the customer, but we're quite well versed in triaging out claims that are not going to proceed. And there is a number of ways that we can approach that.
So once we sort of decided that we are going to be looking at a claim, we would normally either wait on the customer supplied evidence coming in or we would approach the GP and or specialist at that point and ask for medical records or medical reports. We then get into the mix of how long is that going to take for the information to come back in. And that really can be anything from, you know, relatively quickly to months and months and months. So, there's one of your sort of main delay reasons straight away. Once we get the information in, it's assessed and we would then look to get a decision made and hopefully get the claim paid and the monies out to the customer.
That there can also be other things that maybe come into, you know, to sort of throw a spanner in the works, the main one being misrep. If we found at the when we're looking at the claim and have gone through the medical evidence and it suggests there's maybe a long standing history of something or a significant health issue that we weren't aware of. We do need to, you know, sort of take that a little bit offline and do some further investigations into that. And then again that's a that's a bit of a delaying factor when we when we are looking at claims.

Yeah. And what are some of the most common reasons for delays?

Well, misrepresentation really is probably the main reason. If we were not actively looking to find misrepresentation, but if it does become apparent either during the information call or when medical evidence comes in, it is something that we do need to explore further.

The other sort of main thing I think for delaying claims is if we have to go to the GP.
The specialist, the employer for information. If we don't have any customer supplied evidence because the difference between the customer giving us hospital letters, reports, et cetera, versus having to write to a hospital or to a GP surgery, without the whim of how long it takes the doctors or their secretaries to prepare a response and reply to us. And we don't have any control over that at all. So, you know the lack of customer supplied evidence is a biggie along with the misrepresentation.

And probably the third thing that can cause delays. There is sometimes a genuine general lack of understanding around the claim criteria. I think that's more prevalent in the terminal illness space and in TPD, total permanent disability, for terminal illness we do take a lot of calls from people who've been say they've been diagnosed with a stage 4 cancer which is very serious. It's a, you know, it is a life limiting condition. But they may not be at the stage yet with their life expectancy is going to be less than 12 months and it's quite a difficult conversation to have with someone when they've heard the word terminal from their doctor. But then they come on the phone to myself or one of the team at the insurance company. And we are saying well, what is your life expectancy? Have you had a conversation? And it's a very sensitive area and I think there is a bit of a lack of understanding and that's not anybody's fault. It's just the way our definition of terminal is different from how a doctor, a specialist, will class someone as terminal. And it does mean that we may still go ahead and look at a claim for terminal illness, but we don't pay it because we get information back and that tells us they've just started treatment.

They're likely to be, you know, survive maybe 18-24 months, possibly even longer.
And that does prevent us from looking at a claim, unfortunately. But the fact that we've started the ball rolling does, you know, it may be sending out a little bit mixed message. So, it's quite a tricky one to balance.
And then the TPD space, I think that there is a bit of a sort of thinking that the TPD is a catch all definition if somebody doesn't fall into one of the other critical illness criteria then they can claim for TPD. But the reality of total permanent disability is that there's that there needs to be significant levels of incapacity there, they need to have explored and exhausted all of their treatment options. The doctors are basically saying to them you're not going to get better. It doesn't matter what we do. This is how things are going to be for you going forwards and that is not at the start of someone being diagnosed. That's way, way, way down the line. But all too often people will phone us and say I want to claim for TPD.
I've been diagnosed with, for example, I've got a really bad back. I'm really struggling with my mobility, but that's not something that's going to be claimable for TPD at that point. It's only when things have progressed way, way, way down the down the line that we should be looking at TPD claims. So those types of things, they can delay the process quite significantly. They do have quite a quite a big impact on what we're doing.

Yeah. And do advisers just presume or are they aware of these pitfalls?

I don't think so. I really don't think so, because it's probably not something that.
That it's probably something that only people who work in the claims space will see because we are seeing it, you know, quite frequently.  Whereas an adviser or a customer, it's a whole new. It may be the first time the advisers had to submit a claim and it's more than likely going to be the first time the customer has submitted a claim. So, we do have to have difficult conversations sometimes and it's not always easy to say to somebody “I'm really sorry” but you know you need to go away and your health needs to really deteriorate because that that's not something that people want to hear. So, it's, it can be tricky, it can be very tricky.

Yeah, and how important is communication during a claim? I can imagine it's very important.

It's vital. Yes, it is.

And I was just going to follow up by asking what advisers can do to manage their clients’ expectations during the process, especially if you're going to have to come back to them and be like, oh, sorry.

Again, is that it's maybe more the general understanding of you know, somebody who's been diagnosed with breast cancer, there's probably not an awful lot of managing that a financial adviser is going to need to do. That's a fairly straightforward diagnosis. It's probably the type of claim that we see most frequently is when you do get into the more unusual ones, maybe the children's claims can always be really quite sensitive, so to have a an adviser maybe help in the family with, you know, the sort of telling them how things are going to how they're going to progress, what they should expect, that's always quite useful and obviously in the TI and the TPD space, just having more of an awareness of what we're actually looking for, for us to be able to run with a claim. We don't expect advisers to be able to know all the ins and outs of every single claim type and how it works. But I think maybe more of an understanding off TPD and TI, certainly.
Maybe even also income protection, because they can be a little bit tricky. I think the there's a bit of an expectation of well, I'm not at work, I have no money coming in. You need to start paying me benefit. But there are things that we have to do and the information we have to obtain before we actually get to that point in time. So, you know that whilst we can issue claim forms on paper if people would prefer to fill out paper forms. We can deal with the online submission forms, but the preferred method of dealing with someone wanting to make a claim is by telephone because you can get so much more information from them and really set the expectation around potential difficulties or pitfalls that that may crop up. So, it's. Yeah, I think the tele claim is definitely the preferred way to go.

And how do Royal London provide support act claim for clients and their families?

So we offer the Helping Hand, the support service through RedArc that gets offered to every single person who contacts us to make a claim but it's a really valuable resource there. I think maybe for some customers probably in the cancer space, they have so much support through the Macmillan nurses, the cancer care nurses, the hospital. I think the Helping Hand side of things is maybe something that they're just a bit like “I don't really need that”, but for other customers, it really is. You know it really would be vital for someone who's waiting on physio through the NHS. Well, they can get that through helping hand. The customer has a dedicated claims assessor. So, from not so much the first point of contact, because that comes into our admin area to the claims helpline. But once the claim's been allocated, they will be dealing with that person from intimation right through to settlement.

They'll have our direct e-mail addresses, and they can also contact the claims helpline at any point in time if they do need to question something or just to get a catch up. But we do update the customer, and we do chase the standing evidence.

And finally, if you could give advisers one simple way to reduce claim delays, what would it be?

Ok, so for me the most important thing is for advisers to absolutely stress the max how important it is that all of their medical history is disclosed on the application form. That really is the absolute crux of everything. If they don't tell us about something or they think it's not important enough to tell us about it.
And we're going to find out at some point during the claims journey. Ultimately, we may not be able to pay their claim, and they get nothing.

And that is just absolutely for the families it doesn't matter what claim type it is it's really not what we want to happen at all. So, to be fully aware and up to speed on the application form of everything that's going on, no matter how minor that that really is the that's a huge deal for us.

Well, thank you so much for speaking with me today. Julie, I think you are just a wealth of knowledge in this area, and I hope our advisers are able to take a lot from that.

You're welcome.

Thank you. Thanks very much.

Hello and welcome back to this episode of the Royal London and Mortgage Strategy podcast series. In today's episode, I'm joined by Gregor and Shelley from Royal London. So, Gregor, if you want to give us a bit of background into yourself.

Yeah, hi Kimberley and thanks for having us on. So, yeah, I'm Gregor. I am part of the Royal London Protection technical team. So, my role is really all about getting protection out into the world and helping advisers really start having really good, thorough protection conversations. So, we're really here to make sure that it's as part of all conversations and hopefully we're hopefully we're doing that well.

Yeah, and Shelley.

Hi, Kimberly, it's great to be back with another podcast. Yes, I'm senior intermediary technical manager here at Royal London on the protection side of our business. And historically, I've worked for many years on the mortgage world. So, I've got a particular interest in protection for our mortgage advisers.

OK, so the theme for today's episode is the young and the under protected. Sounds like a soap opera, but I might watch. But yeah, just talking a little bit about how the younger demographic may be lacking protection and why that might be so starting off I wanted to ask why do you think protection often feels out of reach or irrelevant for younger clients? And what's the risk of that mindset?

Right. It certainly feels like a soap opera, and I think it's one that's sadly fading away from my age range very quickly. But the other question you asked there is really, really important. Just to understand why protection often feels out of reach for younger clients. I think there's a lot of reasons behind it. You know, clients, particularly when they're in their 20s and 30s, have that strong perception of invincibility, that superhuman syndrome. So, they don't actually see protection. I would say maybe as necessary. Maybe until they've had or know someone that's had a health scare. Of course, younger clients are juggling rent, student loans, saving for a deposit. Of course, rising living costs as well. So, protection might just sound or feel like a nice to have and not actually a priority. I think from an educational perspective as well it's not something that's taught in school so. A wide assumption here that many don't actually know what income protection or critical illness cover actually is, how it could support them. I think many might wrongly think it's maybe too early in life to talk about it. The trigger events as well. You know we talk a lot in our team at the moment about different opportunities to spot protection vice. I think unlike getting a mortgage or having kids, there's no real defined life stage that automatically prompts a protection conversation if you are maybe in your early 20s maybe late 20s. So, I think that can certainly lead to delay of having these conversations in terms of the risk of that type of mindset. Well, I think one of the things that that certainly stands out is clients miss out on the potential affordability advantage. You know premiums are often quite at their lowest stage when clients are young and maybe seem to be healthy. So actually, if we're waiting maybe a number of years, maybe waiting till client is a little bit older, actually it can become a bit more expensive and generally they're going to be financially exposed, you know, serious illness. That accident could mean time off work, that loss of income may be relying on family protections. Arguably one of the most important support options when you don't have a financial buffer. And there's a consumer duty risk as well. You know, if we're not at least considering or actually documenting a protection discussion, are we truly acted in client’s best interests, especially if they are financially vulnerable? So, it's some of the things that we're seeing certainly. Or fall into those areas as to why it feels out of reach or irrelevant for younger clients.

What are some of the most common myths or a misconceptions young people have about protection?

Yeah. Shall I pick that up then. I think that the overriding thing that most young people tend to think is that they're young, fit and healthy. It's not going to happen to them. And now revisiting in the future. And that's why I think it's so important that for us as providers and also advisers, you know, to show our young customers and clients statistics to show that sadly, sickness, injury and premature death does happen to people who are in their age group. And I think also, you know, many, many providers are included, have something like a risk report that shows personalised statistics of the risk, chance and probability of terrible things happening in someone's working lifetime. So, the chance of them dying prematurely, you know, granted that that's not a huge percentage any longer, the medics are good at keeping us alive. But also the much increased chance of being diagnosed with a critical illness or indeed having to take some time off work. And that time off work could be sadly, because of a serious illness, or it might be for something, you know, less sinister, but still needing to have a break from work and helping to educate our young people and a great way and a powerful way to do that is to show them, you know, the actual risks that they face. I think the other thing is explaining how insurance works. I mean, Gregor just touched on education and sadly it's not part of the curriculum now, is it, talking about financial services, which obviously would include things like protection. And I think I've spoken to many teachers over the years that would gladly love to be able to do that, but you know the itinerary now for exams doesn't allow. So, if we as providers or advisers can help in explaining protection to our young people. I think that's a really important step. But I think just finally, they looking to explain how insurance works. We can't expect our youngsters to understand how actuaries decide on premiums. But I think we can explain to them in an easy way that, you know premiums become more expensive the older you are.

And sadly, if you did happen to have some sort of illness or health scare, it might be that those premiums are more expensive. Well, sadly, it might even mean that you can't actually get that protection that that you need. So, I think that the sort of myths and misconceptions that that youngsters have.

The other two I've just briefly mentioned, I mean Gregor has touched on them, but I think lots of youngsters think I haven't got a mortgage. So, I don't actually need any protection yet. Of course, protection is super important when you have a mortgage debt to protect, but you know, even those that are in the rental sector or maybe living at home, you know something terrible happened to them like a critical illness or having to take some time off work. Some protection would be, you know, a really great advantage for them to be able to maintain their lifestyle and you know, some youngsters, they even think that they're not wealthy enough to merit protection advice. Well, that's exactly the converse where we're looking at protection that those who maybe have low financial resilience need that protection even more.

And going back to that cost conversation, how much of the hesitation comes down to cost versus understanding versus lifestyle priorities?

Yeah. I mean, I think that when you ask most people, you know of the general public, whether they're young or older like I am sadly, then I don't think most people have any idea what's a protection premium might be. And we know that it's very cost effective when we're talking to youngsters. So, I think they might be making a decision not actually knowing how much that protection premium might be. And I think they might be really surprised. And priority wise, you know the younger age group, they might be saving for a deposit. They might have children. Their priorities might be holidays or, you know, a gym membership, whatever it might be. I think it's important for advisers to talk to youngsters about the fact that all of those things we just talked about, none of them are free, are they? They all have a price tag attached to them. Even things like spending time with friends and family going out for meals. They all have a price tag attached to them and they're all at risk if someone becomes ill and loses their income.

Yeah, yeah. I was just nodding along, thinking all those points that you made are things that I was ticking off in terms of my priority list, gym membership. But with that gym membership, I remember, I think I just turned 30 and I had really been pushing myself in the gym and I ended up messing my back up for the first time ever where I was immobilised, essentially. And I think that's potentially what made me start considering my mortality in the most serious way. And so, I guess from that, what messages or moments tend to cut through and actually resonate with younger clients when you're talking about protection, is it something like me where something personally happens where they're like, oh, I I'm not invincible?

I think it is. I think it's those real-life moments that make it, they make it real for a lot of people. You know, we one of the big things that we're seeing at the moment is an increase in demand for advisers that want to do more protection. They want to write more protection. But just maybe struggle to get that initial conversation started not just with younger clients, but sort of throughout the client banks that they're dealing with and a lot of the messages that we tend to be sharing with advisers to try and help put protection on the table actually isn't much more different to younger clients than to some of the wider clients that you dealing with. You know things that we will often position are you're there to help protect your independence, or their independence. So, we're not, we're not framing as a boring safety net but as a tool for keeping that individual in control. If you couldn't work, how would you keep your flat? How would you pay your bills? How would you stay financially independent? And as Shelley said, it's often cheaper than you think. If you can give them real life examples, as you said, Kimberly, you know, for less than the gym membership or certainly now your Netflix subscription, you could protect your income affordability is a huge mindset shift. And it's not just for homeowners or parents. I think we need to call it that myth fairly directly and say protection isn't just for people with a mortgage. If you rely on your income, you've got to protect it. Relevance really matters. And also it's not forever, it can flex as life changes. Your younger clients that probably do worry about long term commitments, reassure them that protection can evolve over time. You know using terms like starter cover, maybe a base layer to make it feel more accessible can also help them. I think some of the moments that we mentioned, some of those moments that can maybe just get that thought in someone's head, that actually maybe my mortality or abilities maybe not as infinite as it once was, it could be things like, you know, a health scare, a first job, even a promotion. I guess they're tying that idea of protection to the moment that they start earning some maybe decent money. Moving out into the rental sector, it's a big milestone for financial dependence, a perfect time to see if you couldn't pay your rent who would, if you have taken on debt? You know, again, it could be a really good way to position that question of what if you couldn't earn to pay to repay it, what risks does that present? But I think going back to the point you mentioned, second of all, those real stories are what creates a massive impact, you know, don't shy away from saying, you know, do you know someone that's had to stop working or what would you do in in that situation? It really is about bringing it, bringing it to life.

And how should if at all protection be reframed as a smart decision rather than a worst-case scenario?

I’ll tell my share. That's an interesting one because I think we'll move from frame protection where we are trying to frame it in such a way that it is a financial safety net, but it's generally coming along with points of death, serious illness, absence from work. So, you've got a lot of negative connotations that go along with it. I think it's probably helpful to flip it away from fear into freedom. So instead of saying, you know, if what if something goes wrong, ask him what would you do or what would give you the freedom to recover on your own terms? You know, it's not just insurance, it's that peace of mind, it's confidence. It's financial control.

I suppose making it part of smart financial foundations as well, you know, alongside saving and maybe investing and budgeting protection is a real important move to make sure that you've got your base covered and hopefully that plays quite well with those financial, maybe financially savvy younger generations. And I think as I've said a few times already, you know it's really about emphasising flexibility and control. You're reassuring clients that it's, it's not about locking them into something scary. It's about having options there. When life throws your curveballs, it's not about having others to rely on this about being able to be financially prepared for those life shocks. And it's not about fear. It's about freedom. It's not about predicting disaster. It's planning for independence. So, it's a little cheesy sound by there, but those are those are those are some of the things that really stick with me.

Yeah, I think, I was having another conversation about death benefits or something like that or, you know, the process is after someone's death. And I think the way he framed it was to say when the worst-case scenario happens or when the worst thing happens, what could be done to make the situation smoother or easier for you? You know, you don't want to just get thrust into such a situation and then.
Everything feels like it's crumbling. You have no plan or backup, but knowing that OK, this is taken care of so then I can focus on my health. For example, whatever it may be, I think that's a nice way to think about it as well.

So, are younger clients engaging more with value added services?

Yes, I think, Kimberly, I'd say that we are seeing more take up of added value services and the support services that generally come with most modern protection policies. I think that's, you know, when we're talking particularly like we are today, I call subject that younger people, they are much more engaged with social media, and we see many providers and advisers who really are engaging with the younger clientele through these means. And talking about the amazing breadth of support that's available from these services. Now one of the things we said right at the at the top when we started chatting today was that that youngsters think that, you know, they're young and healthy. It's not going to happen to them. So I think talking about the services that come with a protection policy is so, so important. I think things like access to a second medical opinion, being able to speak to a GP online, normally within hours, rather than having to wait days or even weeks. And apps that are, you know, very popular within the support services. So, apps that are going to help with for example maybe physiotherapy type issues or maybe even some mental health problems that clients might be going through. I think these apps, if we talk to youngsters about the support there to stop little things. Sort of growing arms and legs and becoming much more of an issue are really important. So yes, we are seeing younger clients engaging more and that could be because we are able to spread the word more in a way that they engage with us such as social media.

And finally how can advisers tailor their approach when speaking to younger clients from tools to product recommendations? I know that you talked about apps, but is there anything else?

The apps are fantastic, a fantastic engagement to again throughout different client demographics. And I'd also say actually lead the conversation where you know with life not lost another cheesy statement there, but another cheesy statement. You know, start with again, what do they care about? Independence? Lifestyle? Being able to pay their, their outgoings, travel? Being able to take a break if they are suffering from maybe mental health? Fear of protection is something that supports the life that they're building, not just as that that rainy day back up. Visuals are incredibly important, you know, I think we're in a world really digital first. So many insurers rolled on and included, got a vast array of very visual tools to help clients see the protection needs that they have and really bring it to life. Budget planners, you know, short video explainers on different protection products. And I think also I was saying earlier, about recommending flexible, maybe even entry point products. So, a need to go all in straight away can certainly create a quite a hefty cost. Premium wise, so actually maybe this is the right route. You know two kinds we need to go out all in right to waste. So maybe suggest starting with products or plans that they can scale up over time and getting multi cover plans. Menu plans are a really good way to do that. And I think a key thing that that Shelley mentioned around those value added services, mental health support, GP services, there are things that can certainly help re bring the value of protection to life particularly with this demographic but many demographics.

As well and again using all the different communications and informed communication that are out there can really only help get that protection message out there and say some of the key things that we would say, but I'd also just finish by saying when it comes to questions, really focus on future focused questions. So, what's your plan if you needed three months off work and what would you what would help you bounce back without financial stress or who would you rely on and?
And do they know that? I think maybe just a few sorts of top tips that really help get that demographic thinking about protection.

Thank you both for speaking to me about this subject. It wasn't as soap opera as I thought it might be, but yeah, I will speak to you guys in the next one. Thank you.

Thanks, Kimberly. 

Welcome back to our final episode in this series with Royal London. In today's episode, I'm joined by Shelley and Jennifer from Royal London. So, if Shelly, you could introduce yourself.

Yes, of course. So, it's great to be back. I'm Shelley Read, and I've worked for Royal London for almost 18 years. Prior to that, I worked in the mortgage world. So, I've got a particular interest about protection for mortgage advisers.

And Jennifer.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Gilchrist and I'm our protection specialist at Royal London. I've been there for quite a number of years and have. Specialised in protection for nearly 30 years, I think it is. So, getting into the technical detail of protection and what's needed for people.

So in today's episode, our theme is understanding the NHS mental health crisis and how protection products help bridge the gap. So firstly, I want to start by saying.
Reports indicate that over a quarter million of children are still waiting for mental health support after being referred to service. So how does this backlog impact families?

Well, I think it's an awful situation to be in for any of us on the call today who are mums or dads, then it's your worst nightmare, isn't it? Having a child or a young teenager or a young adult that's ill and needing some support.
And when we're particularly talking about mental health, we know that the lack of resource and the stress that NHS doctors and nurses are under is meaning, you know, really long waiting lists. I think we have a backlog. There are probably many, many reasons. But I think when we look at how our youngsters, our children, our young adults and teenagers coped through the pandemic, then it has mean that those waiting lists have become longer and longer with the need for mental health support and guidance for our youngsters. So it will have a terrible effect on families, you know, while they're waiting to get support.
And you know, one of the things that we're very proud at, Royal London and, you know, like many providers, we have support services that, you know hopefully could step in and provide some support not just for the youngster but for, you know, the family while they're waiting for, you know, treatment from the NHS. I don't know whether you could add any more to that, Jen.

Not really, I suppose at the end of the day, just agreeing with you, Shelley, that note does put a lot of pressure on families. Having to deal with sick children is quite a situation to be in, especially when the NHS support maybe isn't quite accessible and just that position maybe worsening if there is a bit of a wait. And just as you're saying, Shelley, protection policies do have added value services that not only provide support for the individuals being covered, but also their family so children can get access to support as well, which can bridge that NHS gap.

I think that, like you mentioned, Shelley, that period during the pandemic allowed people to kind of sit with themselves and understand that they needed help. And also I think raised awareness, more people aware of, you know, different mental health issues that may be out there that may be affecting them. And with this, the NHS, mental health services treated a record 3.8 million people last year. So what does this tell us about the current state of the mental health in the UK?

Well, I think if you, you know, watch news reports or read any of the newspapers, I think the word crisis is used quite often and we do appear to have a mental health crisis in the UK where there is so much demand and you know, our medics are under such pressure and resource means that those waiting lists are, you know, getting longer. Quite recently a friend of mine, she was looking to get access for her young teenager who had really struggled since the pandemic. Big and you know, even to get a referral, it was going to take round about nine months, you know, and that's agonising for families and not helpful, is it for the youngsters, who's, you know, maybe even their education is put on hold or they're not achieving what they potentially could have achieved while they're waiting for this support.

And how does this filter through to the protection industry? Does it filter through?

I think I think it comes through in two ways. Obviously, what we have is when people apply for protection, they go through an application form where they're making disclosure or disclosures about their health and well-being. So, you see the detail of mental health conditions being disclosed through applications and I think it's fair to say that we have seen that increase in number. I think what we're seeing now is people more easily talking about mental health. And actually, going and seeking help and disclosing it on the application forms the other way. The other way obviously, we see this is when we see our customers who actually have protection policies accessing different services that are with the insurance policy. So, before it used to be the insurance is very much a financial thing. It gave you financial support when you needed it, but protection? I think it is really come into its own in the last few years since COVID, where added value services and particularly for the likes of mental health support, is really coming into its own, and advisers are really trying to consider that as a must have in a policy, not just the financial support, because the support that's provided  is one sort of extreme to the other and that it can be very much about preventative services just helping you get through. Which could be just picking up an app and just keeping your well-being day-to-day and check. But or it could actually be that you that you're going through to a dedicated nurse on our Helping Hand cover where you get access to counselling and other mental health services there as well.

And how do you support services integrated with protection policies, assist clients in managing their mental well-being?

Yeah, I could just add to this, I mean it very much reiterates what Jenny has just been saying. But like many modern protection providers now we offer a whole range of support. There are many apps that can help in managing mental well-being.

But I think if you have access to Helping Hand through Royal London as an example, it includes online access for the plan owners and their immediate family too.

We know a range of handpicked well-being services, so you know, we want to help you with the clients, to stay fit and healthy. And one of the support services that we have to help with our well-being is an online service called Thrive Mental well-being. So it's a completely confidential app which we hope really will help prevent, detect and manage some mental health conditions and also help to build resilience.

So it offers tailored goals and support using, you know, real evidence based tools and techniques, and the hope is that we would stop any smaller issues becoming much bigger issues that might result in, you know, a policy holder having to take longer time off work.

Could you provide any examples of how these services have been used by policyholders?

I can indeed because I am a policy holder and I've actually used my Helping Hand support services five times, that sounds an awful lot, but this is in a period of about 20 years, but without wanting to sort of bore you with my life story, I just very briefly give you the sort of outline of the support that  I've received and I really could wax lyrical all afternoon about it, to be honest, Kimberly. But I used my Helping Hand support services right, you know almost 20 years ago, to get a second medical opinion for migraine, which I had suffered, you know, a long time since I was 18, which sadly, is a very long time ago. So, second medical opinion is a great way of getting to see an expert in the area that maybe you've been concerned about.

The second time I used it, I needed the help of a chiropractor. When I had a disc problem in my back and again RedArc nurses who run helping hand for us were able to arrange some appointments with the chiropractor that was local to me and you know, the benefits were amazing the third time. And just I guess to demonstrate as well that the policy holder and their immediate family can access this support was for my son. It's almost 10 years ago now, but sadly he was involved in a really dramatic event at an airport. The that really needed, I think on his return for someone to have a chat to him. And again, RedArc nurses were able to provide a counsellor that was really bespoke to the incident that that he'd been through. And again, if I'd have had to source that myself, I think I'd have really struggled to do that.
The fourth time I use my helping hand support services. Sadly, I broke my lower leg and ankle about 18 months ago now. I'm a Brumi as you can tell by this accent, but I moved up to Scotland a few years ago now and sadly I didn't realise how slippery seaweed on a rock was.

But although NHS Scotland were absolutely amazing, I can't fault them.
Consultant did suggest that hydrotherapy would be really good in recovery and again I was able to source that and arrange that through Helping Hand. And our RedArc nurses and finally just to just to again reiterate the great advantage that having access to a GP digitally and by video is so useful. I travel a lot with my job and one day travelling from Edinburgh to London I realised I'd forgotten some medication that I really needed. I got an online consultation with a doctor and by the time I got to Kings Cross, that prescription was at Boots there for me to collect. So, you know you can tell I think Helping Hand support services are truly amazing. The breadth of cover is just fantastic. So great fan and we can't over, you know, we can't over talk about the real advantages that this will give to policyholders, I've talked a lot there.  Jen, I don't know if you want to add anything more to that.

The only thing that I would say is that obviously, Shelly, I don't think I need to add any more examples. There's quite a few in there. But the actual services that are being provided are really to almost bridge that NHS gap. If there is a bit of a gap to accessing services, then it could be that that our Helping Hand service can bridge that gap and then you then go on to the NHS services. It is very much about complimenting what the NHS does. So, it's not that it's going to do something different. It is very much complimentary and to sit alongside what you can access from the NHS as well.

Yeah, Shelley, I feel like you were holding back the amount of times because if you've had it for over 20 years, I think I would use it on a yearly basis, personally.

I don't know if that means like I'm a hypochondriac. Like I would just be thinking of different things. Oh, let me just get this checked out. I can, but it sounds like a great service to have at hand.

Well, again, again, Kimberly, if that aided your mental health by getting that second opinion or getting some treatment to stop a little issue, you know, getting more serious then then then that's a great advocate, isn't it?

Honestly. Yeah, because the amount of times that I have like a little bump in my neck and just jumped to the worst-case scenario. Yeah, I think the Helping Hand would probably be very beneficial.

Have the insurance industries increased emphasis on support services influenced how advisers approach protection advice?

I would say that I don't think it's changed how advisers approach protection advice because these are added value things to a policy. Let's not forget the importance of the policy is to protect a client or their families. Financial resilience should the worst happen. But I think what is happening is that advisers are talking more about the things that come with a protection policy, we all hope that the clients never, ever going to have to make a claim. But the fact that there are services that they can use without going through, you know, something terrible, having to make a claim.

Are really important and advisers are definitely talking more about them. I think in our digital world as well, where policy documents don't arrive in a brown envelope and get shoved to the back of the drawer, the fact that digitally customers can access their policy and see the support services and often start that ball rolling to get some support.

The final thing I'd say is that what we have seen in talking to advisers is that reviews are so, so important now to check that protection portfolios are still fit for purpose. And one of the reasons or one of the reasons for contact can be to remind clients of those added value support services that they might have forgotten come with their protection policy.

Yeah. And Jennifer, did you have?

Yeah. I think advisers are much more aware now about differences of different products and added value services. So, if they are looking up a particular customer with specific needs, they will be thinking about who has the best added value service for a particular aspect possibly that they want to make sure their clients have access to, so they are much more aware of the detail. And some of them with the policies with Royal London have used the services, so can actually talk about it, but again, emphasising what Shelley was saying there about the real impacts that these services can have. But if an advisers is keeping in touch with their clients and doing reviews, making sure that aware of these services and how they can pick them up at any time and use them as, as Shelley says, immediately. They are there to be used whenever is the right time for the customer to use them and to help compliment what the NHS provides or fill that gap if they're not able to do it immediately.

And are there specific considerations or best practises advisers should be aware of when bringing up mental health?

Yes, I think that I'm sure all advisers will be very sympathetic, and you know approach mental health in the correct way. I think it's, you know it may be falling under how we deal with vulnerable clients.

And also, I think to recognise from an advisers point of view that when we're talking about mental health, it could be that that's a permanent situation for a client. It could be that they have serious mental health issues, but also to remember that some mental health issues can be temporary. They could be as a result of maybe losing a loved one, maybe even, you know, being made redundant from work or losing a job or any of these things. So, I think it's important to remember vulnerability and deal with that in a very sympathetic way.

And also, I think when we're talking about mental health, it can maybe help advisers to talk about that by giving some examples. And most of us as providers will have some examples on our advisers facing website or within our literature to help advisers talk about issues and the support that other customers have received.

Yeah. And finally, I think maybe, Jennifer, when it comes to underwriting, how does a client's mental health history impact the underwriting process for protection policies?

Well, obviously we do collect mental health information through the application form, so the application form has specific questions where we're trying to take customer through what they are condition and their story is so that we can make sure that we have got the right cover in place for them.

We do as a provider, review how we are approaching the questions in our underwriting processes on a fairly regular basis. Obviously, we want to keep up to date with the research and any developments in this area so that we are obviously collecting the information and the most effectively possible whilst not upsetting the customer at the end of the day. We have actually recently done an end-to-end review of our mental health underwriting process and made some changes so that this is an iterative process. We're just gathering feedback as to how it's landing and what the customer if they are actually able to describe their condition and then effectively because of the way that we structure our questions, I mean the other thing that we have been involved in as well is the recent ABI project on mental health standards.

And that was really to provide better support for customers with mental health conditions when they're applying for protection insurance. So, it was all about really driving consistency in the market and best practice. And that means that advisers and customers who are coming in and disclosing mental health conditions can do that in a way that they feel is quite clear what they're being asked. And that process is fairly standard across the market.

And that was all done in conjunction with mental health experts like Mental Health UK and the Royal College of Psychiatrists. So, this this is something that, we do lots of analysis when we are looking at how we are approaching the questions in the underwriting of protection policies and making sure that how we are collecting information is the best it possibly can be. It's consistent and we are following best practise.

Yeah. And do you find that more people are more likely to disclose that information when it comes to their mental health? Cause I think maybe in the past, maybe people have not wanted to disclose that.

Yeah, I think it's much more.
Disclosed now it's not as much as that of a taboo subject.
So people are disclosing, but I think what we're doing as well is really trying to understand the customer situation so that we can within our processes we can accept the information the customers provided and we can give them a price for that almost immediately, and if not that we can. If we need to go off for GP information that we can do that as quickly as possible, so we're learning through this process in the same way that you know the customers are trying to get a grip with their condition and we're just trying to put processes in place that just make it easier for the customer to disclose. So yes, more disclosure, I think, than we've ever seen. And I think that's kind of been since COVID, but I think we're much more comfortable now talking about these things and we have done in the past.

Yeah. Well, thank you both for joining me for today's episode. This was a really great final episode in this series, and I hope to speak to you both in the future.

Thanks, Kimberly. It's been, it's been great being involved in these podcasts. Thank you.